But part of it is starting with awareness and making sure that people see the faces of these families -- through you, you know, so that it's not just some abstract story, but there's a real kid and real families behind it.

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So -- but you need to -- I just want you to know, it's not like we haven't thought of why don't we use the SBA. We have.

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You can run a federal deficit of 4% of gross domestic product, just so long as you're country is growing, but not in the double-digits.

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So what you're saying really is that Labour parties - not just the Labour Party, but local Labour parties - were too inward looking, were thinking about themselves and their own navels and not really what was going on around them?

BBC: Transcript of Peter Hain interview